24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

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jacob22
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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by jacob22 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:49 am

digidog wrote:I've just discovered that this thread has been removed from Google searches because of a DMCA claim by one Colleen Kike from Australia. Here's the text.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi?sID=652742" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Haha I just read the DMCA notice there and am trying to figure out how someone who is apparently skilled enough to, quote, "change the nameservers for the two domains" manages to post her forum post as a DMCA infringement claim??
How on earth do you make that mistake?

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by bert9 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:12 pm

jacob22 wrote:How on earth do you make that mistake?
I don't understand it, but this is the same text as post #1 of this thread right, so is 'sheeepguy'/Stan=Colleen? If not, is Colleen yet another 24/7 hosting customer who thought the DMCA complaint was like complaining to the commerce commission? Or by chance were both posts found later by "someone else" who tried to use a DMCA complaint to take it out of google? The posts are dated 20 May ("original") and 12 July ("infringing") 2011, complaint dated 25 October 2012.

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by digidog » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Good spotting Bert. I hadn't noticed that the text matched word for word. You may be correct about "someone else" using the DCMA to silence our thread. I've emailed Stan to get his comments.

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by bert9 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:04 am

When I click on the "Author" of the blog post on the "original" link, "Happy Gilmore", it goes to this URL:

http://ourcomplaints.wordpress.com/author/klib123/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

klib123, rings a bell. :)

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by digidog » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:26 am

Well spotted (again) that man! "Klib Technologies" is/was the company being run by one Caleb Finlay.

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by bert9 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:08 pm

3news item this morning:

"Controversial web provider hides complaints"

http://www.3news.co.nz/Controversial-we ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by digidog » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:01 pm

That's a revealing tale. It looksl ike there's some dirty games going on behind the scenes and we're keen to get to the bottom of this business. If anyone has relevant information feel free to post it in this forum, or even send me a PM if you'd rather remain discreet. Thanks!

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by bert9 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:42 am

There is a story on Fair Go about 24/7 Hosting next week.

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by LauraTulloch » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:56 am

bert9 wrote:There is a story on Fair Go about 24/7 Hosting next week.
Hi all
I was interviewed for this piece on Fair Go next week as I'm one of the many who has been ripped off by 24/7 Hosting.

I am furious :smt013 :smt013 :smt013 about what has happened as our website was effectively deleted and we didn't have a copy of the database so have had to totally rebuild our site.

But at least we've been able to do that ourselves so all it's cost us is our pride (we should have known better and saved our files more carefully) and time.

What makes me super angry is thinking of all those people who can't afford to pay someone to rebuild their sites if they have lost all their data - there must be 1000s of small businesses who have had to shut up shop or just start again with very little cashflow.

The Domain Name Commission has known that these guys have been ripping people off for THREE years and hasn't stopped them. That is negligent in my opinion. But apparently the Commission's powers don't extend to stopping rogue web hosters.

So....I would like to see web hosters regulated so this type of scamming stops.

Please note that regulating web hosters would have NOTHING to do with restricting or regulating the internet.

Can anyone see a problem with this?

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by NZ Websites » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:38 am

Hi Laura,

I am sorry to hear of your experience, and thank you for sharing it with other victims of 24/7. Caleb has a lot to answer for!

As a webhost with almost 15 years in the industry, I am fully aware of the ultimate trust that clients invest in their webhost. For many companies, their business depends on their web host's security and stability for their very existence.

Unfortunately, there are those who always let their industry down, and at a terrible cost, and the 24/7 one has shown how easy it is in NZ to be let down by incompetence, dishonesty, even fraud.

I would be more than happy to have our own systems audited regularly to ensure our servers, security, stability, support, systems, and financial sustainability, are at the highest standard.

I would also be keen to have a rating system that measured all webhosts, tested by an independent body, thereby providing potential clients reassurance that their website is going to be in safe hands.

Bruce Gordon
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WebHost Direct
A Division of NZ Websites Ltd
Visit us for Low-Cost and Free website hosting, at www.webhostdirect.co.nz

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by LauraTulloch » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:01 am

Hi Bruce

It's good to hear from you.

As you are a veteran web hoster, it's great to hear that you would support regulation. I think a rating system would be excellent too as this would really help consumers work out which web hosters to go with. Perhaps the regulator could also be the rater, with the ratings given for things which are measurable, like the average amount of downtime of a web hoster's servers in a year. Can you think of any other measurable criteria?

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by digidog » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:09 pm

Hi Laura,

What happened to you is inexcusable - losing the data from a database driven site is more than negligent and the way this was handled by 24/7 has damaged a lot of local businesses. If you read back through this thread you'll see that the company has been poorly run for years.
LauraTulloch wrote:The Domain Name Commission has known that these guys have been ripping people off for THREE years and hasn't stopped them. That is negligent in my opinion.
The DNC only administers ownership of domain names and they bear no responsibility at all in this case. Nor should they.
LauraTulloch wrote:So....I would like to see web hosters regulated so this type of scamming stops.
That would be near impossible to regulate. The concept of the government setting up a department to regulate web hosting is fanciful. For a start it could only apply to NZ companies, so anyone hosting offshore would be immune. In a user pays world, someone would have to cover the costs and I reckon it would end up being you and me and the thousands of NZ companies which have web sites.

Hundreds of NZ companies offer domain hosting (including my own). Probably more than half the people offering hosting services in NZ have reseller accounts with overseas outfits, so their clients are unwittingly being hosted on servers in the US, Romania or who knows where. I've had personal experience of overseas "bargain" hosting and while it's usually very cheap, you're sharing a server with tens of thousands of other sites which often results in slow connections and patchy service. When one person uses that shared server to generate a spam campaign, every site hosted on the server risks being branded as a spammer and your emails start hitting spam filters.

The idea of having a rating service for web hosts is not new and there are dozens of sites already offering this service. The trouble is, it's easy to manipulate these rating games which makes them next to useless. Soon after we started received reports of poor service from 24/7, I noticed that they were highly rated by one of these "rate my host" type of sites. It turned out that 24/7 were posting rave reviews of their own service. (Page 2 of this 2008 thread refers) While we managed to get 24/7 removed from that site, soon after they started their own review site and guess what... they came up on top for NZ. We live in a world where anyone can buy fake reviews, thousands of Facebook likes or retweets for just a few bucks. Someone was even advertising such a service on TradeMe last year. The internet makes this type of fraud easy.

The best advice I can offer to anyone looking for web hosting is to do your research. Over the last three years a simple Google search for "24/7" has brought nearly 9,000 people to this thread. The problems of hosting with 24/7 also been well publicised on Geekzone and FairGo. When you're paying someone to keep your business visible on the net - the cheapest option is not usually the best.

[Disclosure: I host a number of sites with Bruce's company and I'm delighted with the service I receive]

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by LauraTulloch » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:27 am

Hi Digidog

Thanks so much for sharing your views.

You're right about the ratings agencies being fake as 24/7 Hosting is STILL being ranked highly by several and my requests for them to be removed from listings have gone answered.

What you describe below about bargain hosting seems to me to be more evidence for the need for some kind of regulation. Many customers want to know what they are buying and want transparency as much as possible. So for instance, is a web hoster's server being shared in the way you describe with bargain hosting, or is it the web hoster's own? Is it in New Zealand, or elsewhere or does it even matter?

As you point out, it would be virtually impossible to police so perhaps it is a matter of setting up an association worldwide which web hosters can register to members of, much like the UK's British Medical Council or New Zealand's Master Builders' Association.

Companies could be audited randomly to check their claims are correct. A small membership fee could be charged for membership to cover administration costs.

As there are currently no regulatory web hosting bodies any where in the world, the Association would need to sit under some kind of international umbrella which is seen as being impartial, like say Interpol http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Cyb ... Cybercrime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you think something like that could work?

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by digidog » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Almost all of the webhosting you can buy will be based on a shared server. You can purchase dedicated servers but that's an expensive option costing hundreds of dollar each month. There's little point unless you're a major corporation.

The main problem you'll experience with hosting companies are outlined above. Slow connections, poor customer service and the possibility that a site hosted on a shared server will be flagged as being spammy for being in a "bad neighbourhood". For example, I'm having issues with Vodafone at the moment - the IP address they've assigned me is within a range of addresses which been used to send spam at some stage. While I'm running my own mailserver, I have to access the net via Vodafone so some of my emails are being marked as spam by Gmail and other providers. Vodafone are dragging their heels badly with this issue - their initial response was that I scan my computer for malware! Er... it's not me sending spam, it's someone else within Vodafone's IP range. They're frustrating to deal with. But I digress.

The problem you struck with 24/7 - a web hosting company refusing to answer phones or emails and blocking access to all their clients account - is unique in my experience. No sort of regulation would be able to spot this type of behaviour until it was too late. And any form of rating system can be manipulated, no matter who runs it. The people providing the worst service have the biggest motivation to fiddle the numbers. I can't see any way that regulation would be effective.

The best practice is to research web hosts carefully. If you can, speak with some of their existing clients and check online for forums like this one. It's hard to believe that anyone who read this thread over the last two or three years would then sign up with 24/7. Word of mouth is a company's best marketing tool... or in this case, their worst.

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Re: 24/7 Hosting in Christchurch

Post by LauraTulloch » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:12 am

Hi digidog

There are other problem web hosting companies in other parts of the world causing these types of problems too. Luckily to date 24/7 is the only one in NZ.

While people on this forum may be more alert for scammers than others, not everyone will be able to read this thread. Plus reviews of 24/7 Hosting are pretty good. While google searches bring up some negativity about 24/7 Hosting, I only stumbled across this particular forum by mistake as it doesn't come up on google - I guess because it was taken down by the so-called Colleen Kike??

Whatever, there will always be people who will get defrauded by hosters like 24/7 Hosting, and it REALLY bugs me. Additionally, many many people (I would say the vast majority) are not familiar with the world of computing and could easily have the wool pulled over their eyes or not take steps they should take to protect themselves ie saving their webfiles and databases. Sooooo many small businesses in NZ would be in this situation - they are sitting ducks for vultures like 24/7.

This is why I want some kind of professionalisation introduced.

What do you think of my idea below ie setting up an international association under something like Interpol?

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