Another dodgy trader now disabled "Hair extension produ

[kranch]

TM Username: mal_guise

I purchased $266 worth of product of which I have never seen. Many emails with vague replies - 17 days later she asks for a physical address to send items to. I told her I wanted a refund.

22 days later Marena Guise emails to say quote: "I was employed by the supplier to sell their extensions on trademe". Then goes on to say "Unbeknown to me the supplier (employer) was actually restricted and was not suppose to be selling on trademe". Trader lives in Christchurch. Marena has supposedly informed TM and the Police - says she has lost a lot of money also.

For any traders caught up in this web would be good if we could keep in touch. I doubt we will see our money again.

The organisations that Marena was linked is "Obsession Hair" and "Seductive Hair" dot com websites.

[digidog]

Hi Kranch, and welcome to ScamBusters. For the record:

mal_guise
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Feedba ... ber=229034

177
9
11

This is a slight variation on dropshipping - selling on behalf of a disabled
trader. There's a reasonable amount of money involved and your dispute
is with Marena... not her supplier. Regardless of the fact that she was let
down by her supplier, it's her that has to make good in this case.

The amount of money involved is less than the Police normally would
pursue, however it wouldn't hurt to file a Police complaint. You've paid
for goods which weren't supplied and that's fraud. If you find a friendly
cop a bit of pressure on the seller and the threat of a fraud conviction
wouldn't go astray.

Don't be prepared to just write this one off. There's about $2,500 worth
of undelivered product involved all up. This is the type of case where we'd
like to see TradeMe being proactive and helping all of the affected buyers
to file a Police complaint.

Please keep us in touch with your progress.

[kranch]

First thanks for your warm welcome and support.
I emailed through the details of my trade to Police as they requested this information earlier.

This was sent their reply:- (Any ideas on what the best course of action might be)?

Hi xxxxx
thanks for your email.

Your complaint with Marena will be civil not a police matter as she was acting in good faith, however your loss is due to Dominic VISSER, i am going to try and put more charges on him for this and as such will ask for reparation but as you know the courts may not grant it. There is no point going to your local station as i am dealing with the criminal side of things. If you wish to continue with your civil complaint you will need to do so through the small claims court.

if you would like me to call you please reply with your phone number.

thanks

[kranch]

The reply from the police guy managing it for Marena
Sent through an email to me along with approx 20 or so additional email addresses he sent to at the same time revealing all of our addresses. That annoyed me a tad - wouldn't have been difficult to send them out via BCC.

Not sure what to do about this one I haven't phoned my local Police yet but I had planned on lodging a complaint for fraud as suggested above. Seems that this police guy has beat me to it saying that this is not a civil case.

Is the disputes tribunal worth a shot?
I see the Police guy is from Putaruru, so is http://www.seductivehair.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; so it seems which would explain why the Cop from Putaruru is dealing with it.

In Marena's email today she said quote:
I am an honest trader and have been ripped by these people by an substantially higher sum.
We (myself, trademe, and the police) are endeavouring to get all clients goods or money returned in due course.
Trademe and the police will be in touch with you in the few days. Please do not contact obsession hair or seductive hair as this may impede the police successfully catching these people.
Natalie at trademe investigations is the person who will be in contact with you.
Marena

Trade me sent email below through today also:--

Dear buyers,
I am contacting you in regards to Trade Me member ‘mal_guise’ you have recently purchased from.
Based on your current feedback and/or contact with Trade Me, as well as our contact with the seller we are aware you:
a. are still awaiting your goods
b. have received goods which are not as described
c. have not received all goods paid for
Unfortunately Malcolm and Marena’s supplier are not of an honest nature which has prevented your trade from being completed in a timely manner.
I have been liaising with Constable Aaron Drayson of the Putaruru Police who can confirm Macolm and Marena’s supplier are known to Police for dishonesty offences (something which I understand Malcolm and Marena were not aware of prior to listing auctions). Constable Drayson is keen to pursue this further and has requested information on trades conducted by ‘mal_guise’. This includes the details on your trade with them.
Police, Malcolm, Marena and Trade Me are all keen to pursue this further. In light of your recent trading experience Constable Drayson is currently looking at preparing a fraud file and will be in touch with you in due course.
We regret that you have had this experience on the site. Police will be in touch in due course, however in the meantime should you have any further questions relating to this case's progress please contact Constable Drayson directly on:
Aaron.Drayson@police.govt.nz
Alternatively if required you can contact myself directly through the ‘contact us’ link at the bottom of each page on the site.
Finally if you receive your goods in the coming weeks we would appreciate it if you would update your feedback to reflect this, as well as letting Constable Drayson know.
Kind regards
Natalie
Investigations Officer
Trade Me Ltd
================

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
If I have revealed anything I shouldn't have please remove it.

thanks,

[bumbleguts]

Hi Kranch

If I am reading the above posts correctly, it appears to me that Marena is as liable as her suppliers and it is fraud as she was selling goods she did not have.
She may have done this in good faith but she should not have sold anything she did NOT have in her possession.

Take her to the disputes tribunal or push the police into charging her and she can attempt to recover her costs from her dodgy suppliers.

It also appears the email you received from trademe indicates dropshipping is OK when it states in the terms and conditions 4.2(c) "You will not list items that you are not legally entitled to sell or that are not in your possession. "

[Foggyone]

The reply from the police guy managing it for Marena
Sent through an email to me along with approx 20 or so additional email addresses he sent to at the same time revealing all of our addresses. That annoyed me a tad - wouldn't have been difficult to send them out via BBC.

This doesn't surprise. My dealings with various Police Officers suggests that as a group they are not very technologically competent. Generally nice and helpful, just don't know a whole lot about the internet etc.

However, he has done you a real favour in that you can contact other victims and discuss the best way forward as a group. You may well find some have consulted their legal representatives, and the advice given by the Police (and by implication ™) may differ from that received from professional lawyers.

We have seen instances where the Police and ™ advice appears to be more self serving than logical. If it was me being conned, as you have been, I would at least drop a line to each of the other victims and introduce myself. You never know what can pop out of the woodwork.

In any event, good luck with getting satisfaction.

And for the record

Seductive Hair
105 Reservoir street
Putaruru
NZ
021 1262087

Here is the last page of listings from mal_guise. This page is not viewable in IE, use Firefox browser.

[ionet]

_

This is interesting:


http://obsessionhair.com/training.aspx

Site from link in graphic here:

www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=134636572

Business oppotunity

Hair Extension business for sale:

Hair Extensions are a hot new accessory, as more people are becoming aware of the popular trend
more bookings are made, right now we are in need of Qualitfied Hair Extension artists.

Making $1-3k per week this is a highly profitable business for anyone to enjoy.


We offer 6 methods of Hair Extension application so we dont need to turn away any clients who will not be suitable
for one method.

This is a mobile business so it can be run from anywhere.
Our existing client base are loyal and return every 3 months for a reapplication service

You will recieve full stock:

2 hair extension Shampoos
2 hair extension Conditioners
2 hair extension serums

Hair Extension brush
Hair Extension comb
HAir Extensions sectioner
Hair Extensions cape
HAIR Extension apron

Hair Extesion signage
Hair Extension posters

Hair Extension method 1 kit
Hair Extension method 2 kit
Hair Extension method 3 kit
Hair Extension method 4 kit
HAir Extension method 5 kit
Hair Extension method 6 Kit


Hair Extension manual.

5 x clipin Hair Extensions
500 extensions- i tipped
500 extensions- u tipped


You will not need to purchase anything else to apply the hair extensions. (besides hair)

Wholesale trade account

I will include a ticket to attend a training workshop also so you can go along and learn about Hair Extesions from a trained
professional.



For only $3900 you can own your own business and begin right away you will recieve Trade accounts for wholesale deals, advertising materials. Contact sales@obsessionhair for more information, or contact us through the contact us link.

Agree with others. The seller on Trade Me is first & only port of call for refund / claims. The rest is a red herring thrown in for a sympathy vote.

Those websites probably cost something to establish.

"Going for a long time" on one site, so does the Seller have solid long established business and assets to extract themselves out of their self created mire ?

Why should TM buyers have to swallow the dummy & bedtime story after the event when everyone else takes responsibility for their good bad or otherwise buying decisions from their suppliers, rather making their customers also suffer for the stupidity of the situation ?

Between TM, the Police & Seller, we seem to be seeing a nice cosy little "Get the Naughty little Supplier" theme being hopefully played out in the hope it exonerates all others and lifts the matter sufficiently high enough out of the cactus

The earliest reports of non delivery & problems with these go back to 5th & 12th December and extend forward into mid Jan, so surely the Seller must have known or had inklings of what was going on ?



M

[kranch]

Yes they operate www.obsessionhair.com and www.seductivehair.com. It is one guy around 24 years old - he makes up the websites and he's scammed people on TM before and was on bail when apprently he employed the representative who sold his products. Yes the business details above, the girl I purchased from advertised this business on zillion or sellmefree as my first dealings with her were on the 25th December when in fact I enquired about the hair extension business for sale. She led me to believe that www.seductivehair.com was her own site.

I have made contact with several others and there is probably around 8 of us who would like to take Marena Guise to the DT. According to the Police we only have a civil case. He maintains he believes Marena was innocent in this. All of us think otherwise given the dogy emails.

Natalie at TM hasn't phoned me but liased with another girl. In so far as breaching the TM terms & conditions (she must have got wind of this) she's apparently defended herself and said that I (me) must have misunderstood her. Thanks to one of you guys above pointing out the TM 4.1c clause in terms & conditions versus drop shipping.

Obsession Hair (her supplier) have now sent nearly all the claimants part products and none of them are as described at auction. All people thought they were purchasing new and the items delivered are second hand or had it. According to Aaron the suppliers are trying to get themselves out of the shite by sending off anything they can.

They also accompanied the product with a letter which offers a $20 voucher with a number. They say you can use this on-line when ordering products. Along with at least 4 others so far we all have the SAME VOUCHER NUMBER! Hows that!

Marena Guise has stepped back and is not replying to my emails.
No apology or anything, just her first point of contact saying "she had been ripped off". She maintains she's out of pocket by a substantial amount also. Aaron and I don't see how this can be and he has asked her to put this in writing.

Obsession hair say the remainder of the orders will be received by the 4th February and aplogise for the delay, say in the letter they recently hired a new sales rep and have since had serious problems with dispatch. They also note in the letter that if we did not receive updates on our order they apologise as this is the job description of the sales rep. They say that they woudl like to know about this and to email them details.

Consumer say that we will need to take Marena Guise to the DT. Had she been someone in the Trade or retailer would have been easier. Due to her being a private seller makes it more difficult but she is not immune to responsibility as she had the money and banked it.

I have compiled a vanilla letter & think we might send to Marena Guise and give her 4 working days in which to refund monies. No reply from her and send the same letter off via tracked mail (signature required). In this letter give her 24-48 hours before legal action taken.
No response from her then file with the DT (all the people who have been ripped off by her).

With regard to the part packages received I have advised the others NOT to send anything back. Photograph it and send through to Marena Guise asking where the balance of product is and/or state they don't want the less than acceptable product but a refund.
Anyway help with advice here?

thanks to you all, this is very (all over the place).

[ionet]

_


No matter what the circumstances or what some may try to have you believe, Marena Guise is the person who is directly responsible for the trades, any refunds & state of the product (or lack of it or not being up to standard)

and therefore your claims should be directed at her through the courts.

What she does in regard of her dodgy Supplier who may have let her down is up to her solely & for her alone to take whatever action on

You've done the right thing pursuing her for refund & any Court filings if she doesn't perform should similarly be addressed with her as the other party


As a business she was selling the goods & trying to sell a business opportunity(ies), so dependent on circumstances & if the buyers were private individuals, the certain provisions of the Fair Trading Act & Consumer Gurarantees Act may apply & prove handy references.

You'll find them looking up each at www.legislation.govt.nz site

M

[bumbleguts]

According to the Police we only have a civil case

I would love to know the definition the police use for fraud as the dictionary I just looked at states

1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

dikshenery

The money was paid to Marena for goods she was selling.

She did not have these goods yet accepted the money.

She failed to obtain the goods or refund the money.

FRAUD in my book

It may be worth your while going over the head of the cop handling the claim and as Digi states above get all affected parties to back you and demand some police action.

[dobby]

Whilst I agree in principal with the majority of suggestions that have been
posted above, including the opinions posted that this is a case of fraud,
this is worth reading for a second time:

"I was employed by the supplier to sell their
extensions on trademe". Then goes on to say "Unbeknown to me the
supplier (employer) was actually restricted and was not suppose
to be selling on trademe".

If there was, in fact, an employer-employee relationship here, this could
well put a different spin on things, and possibly account for why TM are
looking to go after the person being referred to here as a 'supplier'.

Whilst it's easy to make an assumption that this is a case of dropshipping
gone bad, there could be more here than meets the eye. It pays to read
the fine print.

Alrighty then ... mini-rant over ... as you were.

[ionet]

_


That's interesting - an "employer - employee" stance.

But in terms of TM's T&C, their user agreement might be held out to supercede and rank in precedence to any unknown third party arrangements a defaulting seller member may try to throw at them after the event to make the lot look a little better than a complete disaster

It's certainly the case with payment of fees and if they were entertain the red herring tossed at them, it tends to make a mockery of their requiring account details having to be up to date & current so they know who they have trading on the site


M

[bumbleguts]

"Unbeknown to me the
supplier (employer) was actually restricted and was not suppose
to be selling on trademe".

what does restricted mean?

Did Melena receive money to sell the goods or was she keeping the mark up on what she had to pay for the goods.

If thats the case she was working for herself IMO

[kranch]

From what I understand the supplier was on bail and banned from using TM. He employed her to sell on TM for him. I believe that she took peoples money then banked it into her suppliers account minus her commission. The supplier has done this before "scammed" TM users and now the police are after him for these charges.

[digidog]

Legally your dispute is still with Melena as she was the one you made a
legal contract with when you won her auction. I'd be interested to learn
the circumstances behind her agreeing to act as an agent for the fraudster.
How did she meet him/them? What (if any) contract exists between them?
Could she actually be an accessory to the crime?

If the Police want to nail the "supplier" there's a small chance that you might
get your money refunded from that source.